Interview

Several months ago, I had the opportunity to meet with Asif Kapadia in a post-production centre in the heart of London. He is a friendly, lively and candid fellow, clearly engrossed in his work and cinema as an art form. -Martyn

Martyn Conterio, Scene 360: Your first film “The Warrior” (2001) won the Carl Foreman Award for “Most Promising Newcomer” (2003). It is quite an achievement for a debut motion picture. How did it come about?

Asif Kapadia: “The Warrior” originated from a short film that I made when I was a student at the Royal College of Art. I made my graduation film “The Sheep Thief” (1997) in India, and won a prize at the Cannes Film Festival (“Cinéfondation Award For Best Short Film”). And because it did well, it was noticed by the industry. So when I went to work on a new script, it made perfect sense to set it also in India. I really wanted to push myself as a filmmaker. So we ended up shooting this morality tale–this fairy tale in the desert in India. And we worked with street kids and local villagers. There were no professional actors, and it wasn’t in English. It was a very difficult shoot. I essentially made the film with the same people I’d made the short film with. And that’s how “The Warrior” came about.

A scene from “The Warrior” (2001). Photo © Miramax.

What was the inspiration behind the film?

Quite a few people I’d collaborated with at the Royal College of Art were students and tutors. My co-writer Tim Miller, who wrote “The Warrior” with me was Head of Production at the RCA when I was a student there. He had the idea after he’d read a book of Japanese stories and there was a scene in which a young boy is brought before a very powerful man, shown a severed head, and asked “Is this your father?” and the boy lies and says it is. And that’s where the movie came from– this four line scene in a book. I thought it was such a powerful moment… and I thought let’s explore it. And the whole film came out of that one scene.

“The Return” (2006), your second film was very different. Why was there such a long gap between movies?

It took a long time to get the second film together. I had a few projects I’d been developing and a couple of books I’d wanted to adapt. For one reason or another, they didn’t come together. Because I’d put everything into the first film, I didn’t have another one ready. For me, it takes on average, five years to make a movie. And it just came to a point where nothing else was coming together, I was running out of money, and also you only learn by doing, by shooting a film. So an offer came through, and the producer and those behind the film had done interesting stuff in the past. And it was something I was willing to try. I’d never worked in America before.

What were the problems encountered making a Hollywood film?

In the end, it was quite a political experience. Not what I’d hoped it would be. It was just… You know all the clichés you hear about? Unfortunately they became true. But you know, that what doesn’t kill you makes you stronger! It wasn’t a particularly personal film in anyway.

What appealed to you in taking the project?

There was an idea for the story, and the problem with it was, it wasn’t quite right. And the biggest problem came when the film was put into production before the script was ready. You’re never going to fix it. It was one of those situations where you’re trying to hold the sea back and you just can’t.

Sarah Michelle Gellar as Joanna Mills in “The Return” (2006). Photo © respective film studio.

Did it end up becoming a star vehicle for actress Sarah Michelle Gellar?

It didn’t start off like that, and as I was going along, I started to realise it became something like that. The film was marketed as a horror film. It’s not a horror! It’s not a scary film. And if they wanted a horror film, why did they ask me, having only made “The Warrior?” You just end up annoying the audience because they’re expecting something like “Hostel,” and it’s just so not that type of film.

Would you work in America again?

I would. I know a bit more and I’d be more careful about decisions. It hasn’t put me off working there. The crew were fantastic, most of the actors were fantastic. It’s an industry. I mean a proper industry in America in a way that it isn’t in Europe. They make movies as a nine-to-five job. Over here, you have huge gaps and then you work, give up your life in order to do a movie, and then you have a huge gap again. Over there, people just go from one movie to the next. It’s a machine in that way. And it was very interesting to step into that.

Your third film “Far North” (2007) was made in the Arctic, how was it like filming in those conditions?

It was cold (laughs). It was tough. But I’m really quite in love with that place. It took a long time to get together. The story (by Sara Maitland) first came to Tim and myself in 2002. My first trip to the location was in early 2003 and the film came out in early 2008. We all lived on a ship, it was quite mad. But it was one of those films that I know I won’t do again–a once in a lifetime experience. It’s very hard working in the extreme cold. Having worked in extreme heat and extreme cold: I’d take working in extreme heat any day. The cold just does something to your brain. It starts to shut down. It’s hard to communicate; hard to express yourself; it’s hard to think and the crew just couldn’t move at the pace you’d normally move in.

Sean Bean and Michelle Yeoh in “Far North” (2007). Photo © respective film studio.

The movie is full of incredible photography. The opening shot of the sea freezing and the scene featuring the northern lights. Was this all in the screenplay, or were they captured during the filming?

The opening shot of the ice probably wasn’t. I’d done quite a bit of research because the landscape is a key part of the story (it’s another character). I went out there with my cameraman, my DP (Director of Photography), a focus puller and a line producer. We hired a small boat and went out to see all the locations to see what it looked like. I.e. How much daylight we’d have and we shot something just to see how the camera worked? Would it work? We were travelling on the boat and right before our eyes the sea became very still, and as it became less and less choppy, it just froze. The sea became solid. It looked like oil for a bit and then just became solid. Some people think the opening shot is a helicopter shot and it’s not! We got into a small boat and we were actually ten inches off the water with the camera leaning off it, looking down. The northern lights were real, very hard to photograph… technically quite complicated. Essentially you have to shoot it like stop-motion. As if it is animation.

Your focus on environment and landscape recalls the work of filmmaker Terence Malick. Was this director an influence in your movies?

Sure. Another one I would say was a big influence is Zhang Yimou [“Raise the Red Lantern” (1991) and “House of Flying Daggers” (2004).] He was a cinematographer before he became a director, and I admire all his early movies… the landscape… the poetry of the imagery. And Malick, absolutely! I did meet Terence Malick after I made “The Warrior.” He was the person who said to take a camera and some film when you go on a location hunt, because you never know what you might see. Quite a lot of the imagery in “Far North”(2007)– all the wide-shots were shot a year before we made the film. When you’re shooting you’ve just got to do the actors. You haven’t got time to do anything else. Shoot the scene, shoot the actors and then we ran out of daylight.

There seems to be a strong supernatural element in your films.

I like magical, mythical stories. I like fairy tales and folk tales. I’ve always liked that type of film. I think it comes down to the fact that I’m a Londoner but my background is Indian. I was brought up with religion, and idea that there’s another world out there: heaven and hell–there’s a spiritual element that comes into normal everyday life. So there’s this idea of reality, but running parallel to that is other stuff you can’t always see and explain. And I was brought up with that. It’s natural that some of that will come out when you’re writing. It doesn’t always have to be realism.

The use of music in your work is very striking. When you’re making movies, do you give a rough edit to the composer Dario Marinelli as a guide?

I’ve been working with Dario since my student films. He’s composed all three of my movies and he’s quite brilliant. He’s won Oscars! I realised quite early on that the cinema I wanted to make is with very little dialogue. There’s very little talking so the imagery has to play a big part and it is paced a certain way. I don’t like to over-edit. So to tell a really good story, I know I need a good sound design and music. What I’ve done quite early on is given the edit as a work-in-progress to the composer.

Beautiful Artic landscape from “Far North” (2007). Photo © respective film studio.

How did you develop your unique cinematic aesthetic?

After I graduated from university I got a job in television. I had to do everything: shoot, produce and edit. And what invariably happened is a lot of it was “talking heads” and I couldn’t stand it. I was glad to have a job, but I just wasn’t happy. Just being behind a camera did not interest me. I wanted to be interested in what I was making. So I quit and went back to study for a Master’s degree. I wanted to make films for the big screen that were not just about people standing around and talking. I wanted to tell stories through images and how they are cut together? That became my whole reason for going back to film school. There’s not much dialogue in my films. “The Warrior” is a 90 minute film with 7 minutes worth of dialogue; same with “Far North.” It became a conscious decision to tell a story through images or symbolism–ome kind of device that allowed me to tell a story without spelling it out. And if you do that, you allow the film to be open to interpretation. And I like that.

What’s your favourite part of the filmmaking process?

I used to say the shoot. I love being on set, but there is another stage that is really special. It’s when you’ve shot the film and you see your rushes for the first time. And you think “We’ve got a movie…or, oh shit we haven’t!” (laughs). There’s a point where you look at the footage, and you’ve either got it, or you haven’t. It’s a pretty nerve-wracking stage. The special stage is when you’ve edited it and you add the music, there’s something about adding music and the images together which just lifts it. The cycle of making a film is actually quite perfect.

When you’re editing, are you quite ruthless with the material?

I like films that may feel really long, but aren’t. All my films are around ninety minutes. And that’s conscious. I don’t believe films have to be long. I try to be ruthless but I also leave it to the editor to cut the film, and I give my opinion.